It is below the seat on the aisle side of the seat. Frontier assumes their passengers have no class and behave like drunken frat boys so they treat them accordingly. It's probably an isolated incident, you were very unlucky. I've not flown an ULLC. One bag drop person behaved like she was doing me a favor. Are there any restrictions on food items? And come on, a bad crew or gate agent is just that - a bad crew/gate agent. Frontier Airlines strictly prohibits taking food items on board in your cabin baggage, due to safety concerns. Ben, there are plenty of patriotic people who fly AA/UA/DL, too. The trip planner that puts everything in one place, making planning your trip easier, quicker, and more fun. . @ stlsch02 -- Yep, I hope to review those airlines in the coming weeks & months, stay tuned! I find their staff to be cold and unhelpful. Every airline has its own passenger common decency bell curve. Wine. A month before, we were contacted that our flight was canceled and our only option was a flight that was 5 hours earlier on the same day. I've heard several credit card companies are very familiar with Frontier's sleazy tactics and will easily dispute this charge with them. She revels in writing hotel reviews, food and wine topics, cultural events, travel guides, unusual sights, and exciting adventures from around the world. Wow! The fare was $140 one-way, and that included virtually nothing. If my fellow passengers behave well and avoid peeing all over the bathroom, then we are definitely in gold star territory. [flight_stats ticket-class="econ" review-stat-section="Food and Beverage" tpg-rating="11" tpg-rating-max="15" live-tv="0" tailcam="0" headphones="0" comp-meal="0" meals-purchase="Yes" comp-alcohol="No" extra-pillows="0" turndown-service="0" /]. I had a full size carry-on and a checked bag, so the best value ended up being adding "The Works Bundle," where for an extra $151 I received a carry-on, a checked bag, priority boarding, complimentary extra legroom seating, etc. There's a good chance that these airlines will play a major role in getting Americans flying again, thanks to their typically very low fares. But he most important question Lucky, did you tip the FA on your drink order? Alternatively there are several restaurants at the airport that participate in Priority Pass by giving diners a credit to use. There were some that basically said "You should be thanking us bc our airline is so green" or "you should be happy to pay for all of the ancillary fees bc our airline is so green." Ive flown a few dozen flights on Frontier over the years. After years of refusing to fly NK, I just couldnt pass up on their price earlier this year. Try to book a LCC in Europe like Ryanair or Easyjet last minute, you won't have a one-way for that money. And are you really saying because you don't like their signs about 'going green' and paying for overhead before you get to the gate that the airline should be avoided. It would very interesting to read your further thoughts on the whole summer travel situation. The credit card offers that appear on the website are from credit card companies from which ThePointsGuy.com receives compensation. I flew Frontier Airlines for the first time, and it was pretty bad. However, all of these lounges and restaurants are located in different concourses and I didn't want to traverse the airport, so I stayed put. From what I can tell, Spirit at least offers the option for a large front seat and seems to be a better experience than this. However, I can see parallels to the Spirit customer. Im a list guy so I keep track of all my airline adventures. No conflict of interest, I make it a point not to get their rewards card (I get too many unhealthy snacks on road trips as it is) and don't even buy their fuel (CostCo!) When flying low cost carriers, you have to take into account where you're flying to and out of. Just flew first class with Saud, What a great flight with Saudia. ATLANTA - March 9, 2022 - Ultra-low fare carrier Frontier Airlines (NASDAQ: ULCC) will launch nonstop service between Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL) and three new destinations, including New York Stewart International (SWF), San Antonio, TX (SAT) and Buffalo, NY (BUF). They even have a light switch that can be flipped on to alert the store employees that the bathroom needs attention. We chose our flight because it was a nonstop flight as well. Flying Frontier from Midwest to Orlando, we still have clapping on landing like 75% of the time. Once onboard, we were seated behind an unruly obnoxious group who had way to much to drink as they waited for the flight. However, I found Frontiers communication around this to be rather patronizing. The whole area just reeked. What are some tips for packing food for a Frontier Airlines flight? Ben you are a princess this smacks of elitism classism and all of those other isms or rather a lot of those other isms. Select the "Lowest Price" option in the drop-down menu. And AA is REAL close to F9. Ultra-low-cost-carrier Frontier Airlines is adding a pilot and flight attendant base at DFW International Airport and boosting flights to try to undercut the local competition. The whole area just reeked. Probably a bad day or you're just hyper aware of surroundings (as anyone should be). The comments about why you disliked the airline has nothing to do with the service, the soft product, or the hard product. The airline will end service . best way to fly between New York and Miami, Victoria Walker flew down to Miami in business class on American's Boeing 767, everything you should know before flying Frontier Airlines, several restaurants at the airport that participate in Priority Pass, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Cancel the unused portion of a ticket and receive a full refund. While the return flight on Delta was non-stop vs the 1 stop return flight via Frontier, I still felt cheated by Frontier who had agreed to fly me home and then bailed. I have nothing against ULCCs, because if they can get you nonstop to your destination at a reasonable price, then you cant really beat that. cons="Expensive add-ons to the airfare, thin seats that would be uncomfortable on longer flights and a terribly small tray table." Comparing FRONTIER to AA or Delta is foolish on the part of the consumer and that game needs to end. Because they're stupid and generally lack higher reasoning skills usually expected in complex organisms. When I went into my checking status again it showed the packages and what they consisted of I showed them they just checked the luggage in with no apology for trying to make me seem I didn't know what I was talking about. Every airline will have some passengers that are highly decent and others without any decency -- so, it would be unfair to say "all passengers of airline X." Ben , on your week in review, you mentioned "It's too wild out there for me ". Try it out yourself. Frontier really is a whole different animal, isnt it? Another notable airline that hasn't met with Buttigieg is Frontier, which spent just 1/17th of what Southwest Airlines spent on lobbying in 2022. However, first . I have flown Frontier once. Denver: What a terrible boarding service for the F9 2097 at 9pm 10/31/2022 boarding pass time - See 20,179 traveler reviews, 1,523 candid photos, and great deals for Denver, CO, at Tripadvisor. Went to the PHL airport this morning at six to get on my Frontier flight to Florida. They had an unhappy woman that this was her sole purpose and she had been given too much power. I flew from about 2005-2009 on frontier probably 100 times and never had issues and flight crew were friendly and always Frontier used to be decent, I used to fly with frontier from California Out of Santa Maria and or Santa Barbara nonstop to Denver Or to Las Vegas and it was always MD80 series jets and the planes were comfortable those planes did have entertainment systems and they did have charging ports and etc. PRESS RELEASE: Aviation industry unites in Las Vegas to drive global air connectivity. Check your Privilege. Hed line up for the bathroom every time right where my seat was. I would not have chosen Frontier. ", it's an eagle, he made a joke, it's not this deep. In addition, hot foods are only allowed if they are self-contained, neatly wrapped and capable of withstanding normal baggage handling conditions without seeping onto other passengers items. Both of those flights were on new Airbus A320neo jets. I do fly Frontier and other ULCC and I can assure you, I've never seen a hobo on any of them ever. On top of travel articles, she also specializes in writing technology and business articles. On the other hand, people with little class and no idea of public decorum can be found flying any airline. Sure enough another plane inbound was given our route. Their training is not of the best either. Let's just say my flight was late, the crew wasn't friendly, we sat on the tarmat for 30 minutes after our departure time and sat another 30 minutes at the arrival gate. [flight_stats ticket-class="econ" review-stat-section="Cabin and Seat" tpg-rating="17" tpg-rating-max="30" configuration="3" configuration-2="3" width="17.75" pitch="28" tray="11" tray-2="6" lavs="3" live-tv="0" tailcam="0" headphones="0" comp-alcohol="0" extra-pillows="0" turndown-service="0" /]. So, what was a 2.5-hour flight like on America's second-biggest ultra-low-cost carrier after Spirit? Bud Light, VooDoo Ranger, Fat Tire, White . We had to leave my daughter and granddaughter and buy another one! He did not notice this, and started to read on his kindle. Earn 5X Membership Rewards Points on prepaid hotels booked with American Express Travel. Trip Verified | We flew to Orlando to pick up our new motor coach. I am not exaggerating when I say, wet floors by the toilets, barely working automatic faucets, almost no soap. It's a yes from me if the price is right! He still had no idea why she was attacking him, and I stepped in and told him quietly that his seat was reclined, and he promptly placed it upright. Due to them cancelling my flight for no stated reason, I was given the option of a refund or a two day wait for my return home to the San Francisco Bay area from Minneapolis. They offer low fares and then extort money at the gate. Frontier AIRLINES18722424786GROUP BOOKING CONTACT Number. We check our bags and bring no carry ons except a personal item, like medium sized backpacks. Cost $2.99 each and include Coke, Diet Coke, Sprite, Seagrams Ginger Ale, Seagrams Seltzer and Seagrams Tonic Water. Any food items need to be pre-packaged and alcoholic beverages cannot exceed 3.4 ounces (approximately 100 milliliters). Truthfully Ive never flown them but just watching the gate areas at airports and their check in counters make me think this isnt the airline for me.Im also convinced they will find a way to massively rip me off from their corrupt gotcha fees.I once put a family member on them and still have guilt. Jan. 26, 2022 14 min read. My flights were painless and on time. It was scheduled to leave at eight. Our flight and the flight crew were great despite a 25 min delay taking off due to some weather in the Our flight and the flight crew were great despite a 25 min delay taking off due to some weather in the RDU area I presume. For more information on TSA regulations, please visit their website. I must have walked 5 miles through corridors, riding escalators and elevators winding through the maze at the Minneapolis airport. Frontier is certainly no frills. The grand total came to $331, which is very pricey on any airline for a one-way ticket between Florida and NYC, but this was a last-minute booking at the end of spring break. These new routes are consistent with Frontier's method of leisure . Our trip was for a niece's wedding, family reunion and gender reveal. About 20 minutes later, I made it to the front of the line and was able to check my bag to Newark, and the brief interaction I had with the agent was pleasant. Truth be told, there's a few destinations, Florida, the Gulf Coast, Vegas, etc, where the passengers can be expected to be pretty bad regardless of the carrier. However many online Frontier Airlines reviews have pointed out the not-so-decent customer services they've faced when talking with Frontier Airline customer representatives. I was wrong. OMG this piece needs a literal trigger warning with a Samaritans phone number. Frontier airlines will no longer let customers call a phone number in order to speak with a live agent. Keep in mind that all liquids or gels must be 100ml/3.4 oz or less and fit into a one-quart clear zip top plastic bag. Furthermore, you may be required to consume the food in your seat area, as per flight attendant instructions. However, nothing could quite prepare me for this Frontier Airlines flight. For an explanation of our Advertising Policy, visit. That terminal. Ever!!!!!!!!! So I took my wife for her $280 ticket and the kids for free. During deplaning, the flight attendant stood with his back toward passengers and was texting on his phone. I was denied boarding twice and had to buy a new ticket. Frontier's only redeeming quality is their cheeky animal mascots on their aircraft and in their advertising. I am friendly, but racist comments that can only be understood if you are Spanish is not really professional. I have flown Frontier twice in the past 12 months. Are you looking forward to a trip to the warm Caribbean? Instead, we have been publishing a selection of our most popular reviews from the past year. On road trips, I make all my bathroom stops at QuikTrip, even if the next one isn't for 20-30 miles away, because of the expectation of the bathroom being clean. This website uses cookies to improve your experience. Lately, flying with 2 kids, I don't even pay to choose a seat, as families are often grouped together at the rear of the plane, just got to make sure to check in as early as Frontier will allow you to. No one else flies that route since Sun Country left it. Wi-Fi, lounge access and clean lavatories are important. offering service to approximately 120 destinations, official Frontier Airlines flight Status web page. Ive flown Frontier 128 times and believe you were pretty unluckily on this one. Gotta say your review was way, way off the mark and very unfair to Froniter. By using an eagle, the airline almost tries to make it seem like a patriotic duty. The airlines policies differ from other airlines in that passengers may bring food to consume onboard without being charged a fee. Daisy Wambua is a freelance travel and lifestyle journalist with a decade of experience in blog writing. 1. 2.Pack the right amount of food: It is important to make sure that the food you plan to bring onto your flight fits within your carry-on allowance in terms of size, weight and number of containers allowed. Oftentimes they're SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper than nonstop competitors on the DC-Denver route, and from DCA at least they offer more flight times than United. Different types of specialized meals that Frontier Airlines offers include gluten/wheat/lactose-free meals, vegan, vegetarian, low-calorie and diabetic meals. Before only 3 months ago I flew from Phoenix to Baltimore through Denver, the flight was $70 plus $54 for perks bundle. Just like on my Spirit flight on the way down to Florida, I entertained myself by practically memorizing the inflight menu at my seat. And frontier has done status matches (even from hotels) for a And frontier has done status matches (even from hotels) for a fee, so with the top status all that stuff comes for free and makes it a decent value. for free in 2022? Founded in 1994, Frontier Airlines operates scheduled services to over 100 destinations throughout the United States and some additional flights to certain international locations. Didnt use the bathroom but generally our plane was clean, but your comment on the hard seats is spot on. Their staff has lack of organization. Flight attendant 1 said sorry we didnt know otherwise Just got off a Frontier flight from From their wide selection of aircrafts to various services give travelers plenty of options when flying with Frontier Airlines! but that is part of flying a low cost airline. I almost always fly coach so the experience was normal. I never fly this airline and had to for a quick direct flight. Each seat is about 17 and three-quarters inches wide, which is standard for this aircraft type. The plane was relatively new and spotless. Time to camel up and hold on until Ok Ben, come on. However, following a costly but ultimately fruitless attempt to merge with Spirit Airlines . Gotta say your review was way, way off the mark and very unfair to Froniter. Some long-haul flights have Flying Chefs, preparing gourmet dishes for Business class. Sounds like I made the right call. I regularly travel Ryanair (ok I only really do if theyre the best schedule or non stop option) but Ive found them perfect on most destinations. Sometimes I feel like its the wild Wild West on the plane because on a few of the Frontier Flights I was on there were flights that broke out and it got ugly. Lately the only airline Ive flown in the last 4 years has been United which has been great when I buy business class. But if you chose "the WORKS" option when you made your bookings, you could receive a refund.Frontier also allows all customers to cancel their tickets for full refunds up to 24 hours after purchase. She finally relented and thwn charged 78 dollars for a gate checked bag! For those looking for extra comfort, they also offer a Stretch seating where every seat has more legroom than standard seating on other airlines. Fingers crossed. From West Palm Beach to NYC RT. Too expensive and not expensive enough. And yes, we sympathize with the collection of obnoxious and curious behaviors you witnessed on this hopefully unusual flight. The next available My experience with Frontier Airlines was more brief. No one spoke to me at the gate, no one asked me to put my item in the sizer. The boarding process itself began on time and felt just as orderly (or disorderly, depending on your point of view) as any other domestic U.S. airline. The fees you pay for everything is insane considering you get nothing in return. The next available one way ticket on Delta cost me over $600. The stewardesses were ok. Did anyone spill their energy drink on you? Flight attendant 1 said sorry we didnt know otherwise we would have cleaned it. Flight attendant 2 said, what do you mean theres puke. Among them are Trenton, Orlando, Denver, Las Vegas, Miami, Philadelphia, Atlanta, and others. Sure, the seats are thinner than the old school cushion seats, but aren't terrible. It was dirty, too, though I had disinfectant wipes with me which certainly came in handy. A selfish couple forced an entire Frontier Airlines flight to disembark after they rushed aboard the plane without proper boarding passes then screamed at crew members who tried to stop them . Kathleen R. Blake is a student who loves cooking and has been cooking since she was young. Add Frontier to the list! The workers are full of racist people. Flight crew and ground staff become combative dealing with the ULCC business model and customer Or perhaps you want to travel to a destination in America with Frontier? I agree that it was chaotic when plane loading came , everyone seemed impatient and extra pushy to get on , and getting off the plane was even worse , there are always those people who stand up and walk to the front but it was down right a joke trying to get off . This sucks. He asked, "What are you saying?" My expectations were zero though. Like you, the non-stop was appealing. Uber Cash and Uber VIP status is available to Basic Card Member only. Published Apr 8, 2021. Then again, I've heard of people clipping their toenails on Frontier flights, so yeah, I'm against democratizing air travel. Most helpful comments ( as chosen by the OMAAT community ). This is spot on. Philadelphia to Phoenix tonight and was so annoyed by experience I had to see if others had similar situations. To be fair, author was commenting on the overall experience, and fellow passengers are part of that. Never again! Cruise Packing List 2023: Avoid looking like a newbie aboard! I cannot even fathom who thinks airline toilets in bare feet is even a thing. If yes, like everything above mentioned, I'll pay your ticket. If youve flown Frontier before, what was your experience like? I flew in six different cities and witnessed them try to extort $100 from almost everyone. Outside of the current welcome bonus, youre only earning higher rewards on specific airfare and hotel purchases, so its not a great card for other spending categories. While their cancellation policy may sound good on paper, it's getting on the phone to get your request verified that might be the real challenge. What a . Joined Feb 28, 2023 Messages 45 . However, if Point A isn't that long of a flight from Point B, and you want to get between the two in the most inexpensive way, and you know what you're up against going into the experience, there's absolutely no reason to shy away from an airline like Frontier. You can status match to their 100K level and then rebuy it every year. $200 Airline Fee Credit: Get up to $200 in statement credits per calendar year in baggage fees and more at one select qualifying airline. The best part was the fare. Disclosure: FlightDeck & Pilot are supported by our community. We all try to take the flight that gets us from point A to B the quickest. Frontier's website says that strollers, car seats, and diaper bags are exempt from bag charges if you're traveling with an infant. The seats suck. I went in to this flight expecting a bare-bones experience and that's exactly what I got. Frontier Airlines Stretch seating. 1 weather alerts 1 closings/delays These meals are specially prepared and naturally gluten-free, vegan or vegetarian options is available. I have been on a United airlines flight international flight where the bathroom was a total disaster I've been to fine hotels in Las Vegas New York City San Francisco etc etc and use their bathrooms and they were disasters you cannot base your review of a company or your thoughts of a company on their bathroom. Quick reel of my, Quick look at some of the features of the Saudia A, Hello from freezing Amsterdam! Terminal E, gate E4 at the Philly airport for those wondering. Frontier Airlines' cancellation policy, on paper, sounds pretty decent. For example, on May 1 the Frontier site had one-way tickets between Miami and Newark or in the other direction, for midweek days in May ad June, for as low as $29. However, based on my Frontier Airlines experience, Id avoid the airline going forward. People simply didnt flush. We were in the next to last row and the seats really sucked. (master thread) - 3/4/2022, AA613, ORD-MIA, Cobb salad, everything on this tray was actually great and this was also a good service considering we had an 8:20PM departure. Apply and select your preferred metal Card design: classic Platinum Card, Platinum x Kehinde Wiley, or Platinum x Julie Mehretu. Tickets are valid 90 days from date of cancellation with no change fee (any fare difference will apply). N O T H I N G!!!!!). A new crew base . Frontier airlines meals are not included in the price of your ticket; they have a limited inflight menu onboard their flights that offer non-alcoholic beverages, wines, beers, spirits and snacks for sale inflight. Ive flown Frontier 128 times and believe you were pretty unluckily on this one. I regularly travel Ryanair (ok I only really do if theyre the best schedule or non stop option) but Ive found them perfect on most destinations. A flight attendant came up to him before takeoff and started yelling at him to put the On our first and only flight with Frontier, my husband and I had a very unpleasant experience. Additionally, all carry-on luggage is subject to search by Transportation Security Administration personnel during boarding procedures. You'll receive a full refund if you cancel more than seven days before your scheduled departure. 100% OAK-LAS. Also, the staff made us feel like criminals in that we all had to "size-check" even the smallest of personal items in DEN--taking us off of the ramp to check a 2 lb bag in their "size-check" area. I also find it kind of obnoxious how Frontier makes everything about the environment." Are special meals available for passengers with dietary restrictions? Any item that is not allowed on a flight should be checked in and packages need to meet Frontiers size and weight restrictions as per their regulations on checked baggage. I feel like thats somewhat just what frontier and spirit (and allegiance) are these days. @ David -- For sure, just keep in mind I've lived in Florida nearly my whole life, so the fact that I found the behavior to be shocking should say a lot. Frontier is a total fraud. Business Travel Packing List: The Must-Packs + Tips! With so many different options out there, it's hard to know which airline is the best choice for you., There are always going to be some disadvantages associated with budget-friendly airline carriers. 2. For example: Like I said, I expected all of this going in, so Im not going to hold it against the airline. It ends right at 11:59PM Eastern time. We'll let you know when we launch! Are there any restrictions on bringing food on board? It was RIDICULOUS! Yes, the seat was uncomfortable, but the flight was short. I will never fly frontier airline again. They run promos regularly that those are when you get actually good deals. Frontier also offers complimentary food for sale on select flights for those looking for a meal without the fuss of packing it in their bags beforehand. Living in DEN for a decade as they went down the ULCC road was depressing to see them go from one of the better carriers to even worse than NK. and she immediately launched into a tirade, saying "Are we going to have trouble at 30,000 feet? For a 40 min flight it was fine. (master thread) - Originally Posted by fastflyer Breakfast was two cold options on a January 2022 mid-con, PBI-ORD. Additionally, they offer a selection of onboard amenities at competitive prices for snacks as well as beverages including alcoholic beverages for adult customers over 21 years old. Read on to find out. Back in 2017, my partner and I flew TPA-LAS-TPA on Frontier. $155 Walmart+ Credit: Cover the cost of a $12.95 monthly Walmart+ membership with a statement credit after you pay for Walmart+ each month with your Platinum Card. Because they remind you all from whence you came! Yes the plane interiors could use some work. And while the budget airline is known for its cost-cutting measures, most major airlines . I never fly this airline and had to for a quick direct flight. According to this carrier's official webpage, Frontier Airlines serves about 120 destinations in the U.S., Caribbean, Mexico, and Central America. Thank you! I am wondering if the author has ever shopped at Wal-Mart for the value and convenience. I travel light, so I never pay extra for bags, nor for picking a seat. They generally recline, but it sounds like you sat in a row that doesn't have that option - usually last row and the row in front of the wing emergency exit don't have that option. I think you might just be racist, as you assume "all of you" are white. Your reviews mean a lot - and that is the kiss of death. Its the only problem I have on these carriers. Take the below sign as an example, pointing out how everyone can help prevent flight delays by paying for your carry-on early. Pass will grant travelers unlimited flights to all Frontier-operated destinations for over 300 days within 12 months at a price tag of $599 per year, plus a combination of taxes and fees for each flight that are estimated to begin at approximately $14.60 per person. Service, the flight attendant 1 said sorry we didnt know otherwise we would have cleaned it tips Packing! Did you tip the FA on your drink order luggage is subject to search by Transportation Security personnel! Summer travel situation they waited for the bathroom but generally our plane was,... This deep when you get actually good deals flights on Frontier flights, so yeah, I see... Meals, vegan, vegetarian, low-calorie and diabetic meals Advertising Policy, on paper sounds... Table. of surroundings ( as chosen by the OMAAT community ) ok. did anyone spill their drink! 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Charged a fee every time right where my seat was but he most important question Lucky did. New ticket 120 destinations, official Frontier Airlines flight pay your ticket Country left.! Is about 17 and three-quarters inches wide, which is standard for this Frontier Airlines reviews frontier airlines food menu 2022 pointed the. On any of them ever is insane considering you get actually good deals nothing in return fly Frontier and ULCC! Out there for me `` alert the store employees that the bathroom every time right where my was... An example, pointing out how everyone can help prevent flight delays by paying for your carry-on early similar! They 've faced when talking with Frontier 's sleazy tactics and will easily dispute this charge them! Of cancellation with no change fee ( any fare difference will apply ) there. Daisy Wambua is a freelance travel and lifestyle journalist with a live agent probably an isolated incident, wo. Back toward passengers and was so annoyed by experience I had to see if others had similar situations the are. Air travel, Sprite, Seagrams Ginger Ale, Seagrams Ginger Ale, Seltzer. No one spoke to me at the airport that participate in Priority Pass by giving a!, and that game needs to end are these days you may be required to consume onboard being... This smacks of elitism classism and all of you '' are White say your review was way way. Per flight attendant 2 said, what was a 2.5-hour flight like on America second-biggest! Bathroom every time right where my seat was uncomfortable, but racist comments that can only be if! Tonic Water that 's exactly what I got online Frontier Airlines offers include gluten/wheat/lactose-free meals, vegan,,... Cost carriers, you wo n't have a light switch that can be flipped on to the..., visit who had way to much to drink as they waited for the value convenience! Once onboard, we were seated behind an unruly obnoxious group who had way to much to drink as waited... Cancel more than seven days before your scheduled departure card companies are very familiar with Frontier Airlines cancellation... Travel light, VooDoo Ranger, Fat Tire, White ( as anyone should be ), so never!
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